Since dominating the airwaves with 4 Non Blondes’ breakthrough hit “What’s Up?” in 1992, Linda Perry has written and produced some of the biggest songs of the last couple of decades. Perry was responsible for Gwen Stefani’s “What You Waiting For?”, P!nk’s “Get The Party Started” and Christina Aguilera’s “Beautiful.” She’s also worked with some of the biggest names in the business, including Dolly Parton, Britney Spears, Alicia Keys, Courtney Love, and Celine Dion. Over the last few years she’s been working with Ringo Starr, a collaboration which has led to Perry writing and producing all of Starr’s upcoming EP, Crooked Boy. Speaking from her home studio in Los Angeles, Perry was clearly thrilled to be discussing the upcoming EP. As she said, “Who doesn’t love talking about Ringo?”
How did you come to work with Ringo?
Well, I guess that’s the magic question. I got a cold text from his producer and buddy, Bruce Sugar, who said, “Hey, Ringo, wants to call you,” and I’m like, “OK.” So he calls me and he’s got his crazy accent and he’s super funny – sometimes you don’t know if he’s joking or not. He was saying that he really liked my songwriting and wanted to know if I wanted to write a song for one of his EPs. He said, “Maybe every six months, I make a four song EP. I just want to have fun and put music out there. No big expectations. And would you like to write a song?” So that’s kind of how it started.
Could you ever have imagined as a kid that one day you’d be writing for a Beatle?
I couldn’t even fathom that. The Beatles were everywhere when I was growing up in San Diego in the late 60s. There was this great record store with the booths where you could go in, put a record on, listen to it on headphones, and decide to buy it or not. So we would do that a lot for outings with the family and my siblings would come home with Beatles records. For some reason, I just loved musicals when I was young, but later on, I would listen to everybody else’s records.
The Beatles always grabbed my attention. I didn’t know it then, but I just loved the melodies. I wasn’t focusing too much on the lyrical content, I was just hypersensitive to the melodies and the backgrounds, and the delivery of John Lennon compared to Paul McCartney. I was figuring that out at a very early age. Now I understand why – because melody is more important to me than lyrics. Then I started listening to everything and watching all the movies and being very intrigued. Ringo was always my favorite because he seemed like the quirkiest one. He was the funniest one. And I thought he just had a cool look. There was something about Ringo, you relate to him. And I loved the drums.
Clearly, you’re not a producer who’s interested in taking on projects simply for their prestige. What did you want to get out of Ringo?
I’ll be quite honest. I just wanted to give him great songs because I felt he deserved them. So I really focused on writing for his voice, because it’s one thing writing a song for somebody, but if you write it out of their range and ability, that doesn’t work. So I really focused on his voice when he talked to me and I went and listened to his range on things like “Octopus’s Garden” and “Photograph” to really understand his voice. I wanted to give him songs that really have depth. To show a different side of Ringo that’s more serious and more melodic, but within his range and his ability.
The first song you worked on together was “Coming Undone” from 2021’s Change The World EP. How did that come together?
I just demoed everything here. Then I sent it to him and he loved the song right away. I sent over the stems and he put drums and a vocal on it then sent it back to me and just said, “OK, finish the production of it.” His vocals have a real swagger. I think it’s because he’s not confident as a singer, it allows him to have this swag about it. He’s just going for it. Like, you know what I know, I’m not the best singer, but I’m just going to put my heart into it.
He must’ve liked the results because you worked together again the following year on “Everyone And Everything” from EP3…
He came to me again and said, “Hey, I’m doing another EP, you want to write me another one?” So I wrote it, produced and sent it to him. And then I went to go meet him. And we did some background vocals together. And then he just seemed like my new best friend, we got along really well.
How much fun was it as a Beatles fan, creating that “Yellow Submarine”-like section of the song?
Listen, if you’re writing for a Beatle, there’s no way a Beatles influence isn’t going to show up! When it got to that part of the song, I was like, “Yeah, this is a moment, let’s go ahead, let’s do it.” I think Ringo really liked that. At first I thought, maybe we shouldn’t do this, but then I was like, “You know what? It works. I’m not going to edit this out, I’m gonna respect it.” It’s like tipping your hat to The Beatles.
I heard your son, Rhodes, is a huge Beatles fan, he must’ve been thrilled?
So it started this way. Rhodes found Yellow Submarine on Sara’s phone when he was about one. I don’t know how, because neither one of us watched the movie. I’d never watched it all the way through because I thought it was too weird! So then he wanted to start wearing suits and ties, dressing like Paul McCartney. I’m not kidding you; he was going to daycare like that, it was hysterical! Then he just memorized Yellow Submarine and started listening to everything else. One day I bought Rhodes a Yellow Submarine lunchbox and we said, “Who’s your favorite character?” We have this on video – he names all the characters and says Ringo’s his favorite.
When I was working with Ringo, I didn’t tell Rhodes. One day I said, “Hey, I gotta go over to a friend’s house and listen to something, do you want to come?” When we get there, Rhodes’ face is just very perplexed, like, looking at Ringo, then looking at me. And mind you, Peter Frampton is there as well. And I’m going, “Oh, my God, fucking Peter Frampton!” Finally, I’m like, “This is Ringo.” And it still takes a moment, then literally, you see his cheeks get red. And then he’s just freaking out. Ringo’s such a sweet person and great human, he gave Rhodes a drum lesson, the dream for any Beatles fan.
And then you got the chance to work on a whole EP, Crooked Boy – out on 20 April for Record Store Day. How did that come about?
I actually mentioned it to him – kind of underhandedly, I didn’t think he was going to hear me. I said, “When you’re ready to let me do a whole one, give me a call.” I just threw it away. Anyway, then he called me up and said, “Hey, I’ve come to discover you’re my best songwriter. So how about you doing a whole EP? You know, that’s kind of what you wanted to do anyway,” and I didn’t even know he’d been listening to me. And I’m like, “Fuck, yes.” So that’s where Crooked Boy came from. I wrote and produced the whole EP. It’s so fucking good, I’m so proud of myself. He sounds great on it. They’re just great songs and he’s so fun to write for. “Crooked Boy” itself is challenging, melodically, and Ringo nailed it. That song is all about him growing up. When he went into a coma, and when he had tuberculosis. I mean, Ringo, really went through it when he was a child.
What about the rest of the EP? Did Ringo give you any direction?
His message is always peace and love. That’s all he wants to sing about. But I was like, “Ringo, there are only so many ways you can say this. And I think you said them all!” So I tried to write songs that touched base on humanity and how to be good people, And the troubling things going on in the world. like in “February Sky” – “I’ve had enough of February Sky,” like I’ve had enough of the darkness in the world right now. And then “Adeline” is basically an ode to a fan or a daughter or a niece with basically Ringo saying, somehow everybody can be saved. And then he wanted a song that was just upbeat. So I wrote “Gonna Need Someone”, which is all about needing someone to love and it’s just totally, a full-on rocker.
I felt like all of those songs come from the same place, they don’t seem randomly put together. I can’t wait for people to hear it. I pushed Ringo to do better vocals and to reach outside his comfort and he delivered, as I knew he would. He’s very specific about doing vocals in front of people and I get that, but on this record I just took over because I knew these songs needed more emotion.
What made you call on Nick Valensi to play guitar on the EP?
When you make an EP and you have four different songwriters and four different producers, it sounds like four different songs. I’m an album person, I believe in one producer recording an album, so you have continuity. You wouldn’t have five directors direct one film, it would be fucking crazy, it wouldn’t make any sense, right?
So I played bass on a couple of songs, but Nick was the person I got to keep it fluid, obviously besides Ringo, his voice, and his drumming. Nick is another great human being. He’s very talented and very patient. I think before I even finished asking if he was interested, he was like, “When do you want me there?” He just gave it his all, came up with great ideas, great parts, and his heart was so in it. With Nick, he’s in it until it’s done. And it sounds great.
Did Ringo tell you any stories from his Beatles days?
We were talking about songs and I said, “Well, you’re a writer.” And he started laughing. He’s like, “Listen, I was in a band with two of the best songwriters in the world. When we were in the studio, I would go off and I’d go write a song. I’d tell John and Paul, ‘Hey, I came up with this song,’ and they would just laugh at me and carry on with their conversation… but I had a couple that made it through.” I just thought it was funny that he just took it that lightly and didn’t take offense, because he’s like, literally in a band with two of the best songwriters in the whole fucking world, ever, you know? There’s no ego.
What did you learn from working with Ringo?
It’s something I knew already, but he really made it even stronger. Basically, it doesn’t matter how big you are, you just always have to treat people with respect and kindness and be humble. I mean, Ringo is a fucking Beatle. He doesn’t have to be anything to anybody. And he puts himself out, goes out of his way to be respectful and sweet and loving. He gives compliments, pats you on the back, lets you know you’re doing a great job. Being around him and seeing how he is as a human being, it just makes you want to try even harder to make sure that everybody that comes into your view, that you’re constantly trying to rise them up, make them feel lifted and supported and heard and respected.
