Doug Dulgarian has been thinking about artificiality. “I don’t know what it’s like over there as much as it is [in the US] – but when you go into a lot of rest stops and restaurants and whatever, they’re all playing what is clearly AI music. It’s everywhere, dude.” Dulgarian, frontman of the cult Philadelphia shoegaze band They Are Gutting A Body Of Water (or TAGABOW for brevity), knows all too well the pull of the synthetic.
That’s the case creatively, in a genre currently experiencing a viral boom: “Shoegaze is one of those genres where you can just make something that feels kind of artificial, and that’s kind of the idea, right? But I think I was getting to a point where it was easier for me to make some kind of smash-up jungle drum-and-bass shoegaze song than it was to like, write a song with my actual friends.” It’s also the case personally; Dulgarian has wrestled with opioid addiction since his teens, and the city he calls home has itself been one of the hardest hit by the US’ opioid epidemic.
On ‘Lotto’, the band’s brilliant fourth album, which came out in October, he’s unmistakably grounded in reality. His lyrics are exposing and confronting, and the vocals were deliberately mixed to be audible. On album opener ‘The Chase’, he narrates an experience of fentanyl withdrawal in harrowing spoken word, while later on ‘RL Stine’ he describes buying a box of cigarettes for a homeless neighbour who he knows will trade them for crack, navigating the tangle of guilt and empathy. He weaves in details that make the sense of physical place central: frozen corner store TVs, the sound of cars passing by, “slushy winter pothole streets”.
Dulgarian couldn’t help but connect his own experiences with a wider sense of spreading disconnection in the world. “Using hard drugs for a long time is such an artificial, strange way to exist. So to get clean and then see [artificiality] happening all around you – through technology, through whatever – I think the thing that really did ground me was physical space, and physically talking to other people,” he says. “The subject matter that I’m talking about is like, these small artificial dopamine hits that don’t really amount to any substantial human experience, ever. And I think they’re a really good metaphor for the way that we just kinda live and are led to live today.”
Meanwhile, the band (completed by guitarist PJ Carroll, bassist Emily Lofing and drummer Ben Opatut) wrote collaboratively and recorded live, with the digital production and effects that had previously defined their albums pared down. It’s more downcast and sombre than their last couple of albums; the band’s murky, prickly guitars alternate between lurching, stomach-flipping heaviness and creeping introspection.
TAGABOW began as a solo project, while Dulgarian was also fronting the now-defunct indie-rock band, Jouska. He’d grown up between New Jersey and New York state, and he spent the early part of his twenties – while peers were playing in bands and going to college gigs – in and out of rehab facilities.
He eventually landed in Albany, New York, by his mid-twenties and discovered the small but flourishing DIY scene there. “I always thought about [playing music] as like [being] a doctor or something. Where like, I don’t know what exactly the schooling looks like for that, but I am definitely not capable of it – I don’t have the money, I don’t have the brains. That’s what’s really cool about DIY, is literally anybody could just do this.” He linked up with Opatut when he moved to Philadelphia, later incorporating Carroll and Lofing.
Across their three previous albums – 2018’s ‘Gestures Been’, 2019’s ‘Destiny XL’ and 2022’s ‘Lucky Styles’ (also known as just “S’) – the band toyed with combining their rich, heavy guitar tones with electronic weirdness. Not only did Dulgarian move away from the digital world for ‘Lotto’, he also let go of a lot of creative control, trusting his bandmates to write their own parts and sculpt the songs democratically.
“The thing that really draws me into music is the humanity of Fiona Apple, or Slint, or Elliott Smith, where there’s something there that I can relate to” – Doug Dulgarian
“I was going through a lot of bullshit at that time,” he says, declining specifics, “so it was easier to just lean on my friends for this one.” Even so, the experience of letting go was a challenging one. “It’s really hard for me to not say, ‘I know what’s best’, but instead to just be like, ‘Let me give you a second to talk.’ I’m so self-obsessed, just by nature. And I think this record was a cool process of having people help me through that.”
While it may have been born from necessity, the raw, collaborative spirit that animates ‘Lotto’ is something Dulgarian hopes to keep alive going forward, he says – especially in the era of AI music and ChatGPT. “The thing that really draws me into music is the humanity of like, Fiona Apple, or Slint, or Elliott Smith. Where there’s something there that I can relate to. I hope we’ve always had that thing, and I hope we continue to have that thing. Not ‘cause I like, hate the direction of the world, but just ‘cause I need to maintain that in myself.”
The growing disconnection in the world worries him, he admits, but he’s also careful not to be pessimistic. “I think it will get worse before it gets better, but I think eventually it will get better. I have faith in humanity, you know? I do not have faith in tech companies that are pushing this kind of thing. But I do have faith in the fact that people are gonna crave reality. I think people are going to be dying for like, genuine slam poetry.”
When TAGABOW play live – as they will in the UK and Europe over the coming weeks – they usually set their gear up on the floor instead of onstage, and play mingled with the crowd, facing each other in a circle. It feels like an analogue to Dulgarian’s emphasis on human connection. “It’s funny, I didn’t get there with intentionality. It just felt better,” he says of the choice. “I think that speaks to the point that we crave connection more than we crave putting ourselves [on a pedestal]. There’s something to that that’s undeniable, at least for me. I think maybe playing music in that way taught me that lesson.”
They Are Gutting A Body Of Water credit: Colin Keena
As for ‘Lotto’, it’s a record of a time in Dulgarian’s life that he thinks he might be done talking about. But it’s also a jumping-off point for what TAGABOW will do next. “Honestly, the record came out three months ago, and it did exactly what it needed to do. I was totally real in my catharsis and in my confession of what was going on in my life at that time. It’s hard to say I’m completely out of the woods ever [with] addiction, but I think it did what it needed to do, and I’m happy about that. I’m excited to get into writing the new one, ‘cause I feel like we’ve found a footing that’s cool. I feel confident, which is the best place to be in writing music.”
They Are Gutting A Body Of Water’s ‘Lotto’ is out now via ATO Records/Julia’s War/Smoking Room. Their UK and European tour kicks off on February 7 – visit here for dates and tickets.
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